A call for prayer.

I am taking a short break from my….break to ask for your assistance in prayer. I find myself in a tight situation in which the pastor of our church has delivered a message on headship which is completely the opposite of scripture, and I feel I must confront him on it. The message is a dangerous one and has given the women of the church a dangerous foothold with which to rebel if they don’t feel their husbands are worthy. It is a task of which I am nervous, but I have compiled a list of points and scriptures which I feel are very plain and clear on the subject, provided they are not viewed through the lens of modern day culture or the idol of “equality”. The meeting will take place within the next week, as I spend some time in prayer and fasting, as well as consulting with like minded, Christian individuals.

I ask for your prayer both in the meeting, that our pastor will see that his message was wrong and not based in scripture. I ask for your prayer in that, prior to the meeting, I will have wisdom and discernment for what I am about to do. I do not want to win an argument, but desire only that the word of God be preached, unadulterated so that none in the congregation are led astray. I ask for your prayer in that my own wife will support me in the endeavor, though I suspect she will not, and it will cause discord in my home. And lastly I ask for your prayers, that I have the courage to leave this church if this bad gospel continues to be preached, and that I have the courage to take the appropriate steps should my wife rebel against me. Neither are savory undertakings, but I seek to be obedient to Christ, even at my own loss. I am not martyr, nor anyone special. I wish to remain a servant to God and one who preaches the true gospel, as instructed by Paul, devoid of false or strange doctrine.



Author: SnapperTrx

Just a guy on the internet.

9 thoughts on “A call for prayer.”

  1. yes, Lord, may it be so.

    it is most challenging to remember, in times like these, that it is not our job to convict a person of their error and cause them to repent – that job belongs to the Holy Spirit. it is our job to present the Truth as we are directed to by the Holy Spirit of God. past that, we must leave it and walk away when the time comes. this is most challenging when our emotions are so embedded and involved in the situation, as are yours.

    may God’s will be done in your life and the lives of your wife, family, pastor, and church. amen.

  2. I have been in the same situation Snapper. I no longer go to church. The last church we attended that I lead my family to was traditional in a sense that we sang hymns. There were no drums or electric guitars. Just a piano and a guitar. 100 or so in attendance. Pastor gave a confessional to the Lord and did 1 hour of preaching the word, albeit that it takes him years to get through a book.

    The other churches we attended were steeped in Matt Chandler/Piper type teaching. Good, but culture driven. My wife lead us to those churches and finally could see her error. The last church that I lead us to was too strong in their Calvanism. I believe the entire bible is “essential”, not just parts of it and the other parts to be “agree to disagree”. God’s word is essential PERIOD.

    Approaching pastors, I found out a couple of years ago, is futile. They cannot be wrong. If they admit they are wrong, than there is a possibility that they could lead incorrectly, which in turn means that can lead astray. They know they are judged more highly than the sheep. They see cannot come to that as they think it is a heaven/hell dichotomy if they take a mishap leading a congregation. I have seen churches split a few times because the pastor had no humility when it came to even possibly being wrong.

    I have a 20 something daughter who was taught feminism by my wife. My wife sees her mistakes finally because they are being manifest in our daughter. I am thankful that she is still pure, but she is acting like a 15 yr old now for some reason when at 15 she was acting like a godly young woman. My son rebelled when he was younger because I was not allowed to instill discipline in him (or daughter for that matter). Now he is godly and Loves the Lord and seeks Him at almost 18.

    We do a bible study twice a week that I lead. We pray for people and ask for His continued blessing. We sing traditional hymns and we can get through quite a bit in 30 minutes.

    My prayers are with you.

    1. Thank you for your comment, as it is very helpful.

      Again, I hope that he will listen, but will not be surprised if he does not.

      I, too, feel that the only recourse after this will be to lead my children in bible study myself after this, seeing as how I am familiar with the beliefs of many of the larger churches here in town. If I cannot find one that believes the words of the bible in their entirety then I will be forced to go it on my own. Not that I expect to find a perfect church, because their are none, but I have some leniency over certain doctrine. Our pastor preaches that drinking alcohol in any form is a sin, but I not no believe so. I believe excessive drunkenness is sinful and that, for some, alcohol is sin, but I can point to at least one verse in which alcohol is recommended in the bible!

      Unfortunately in this day and age ALL women, even Christian ones, are raised in a society that teaches them how to be feminists. That’s one of the reasons why its so difficult for them to accept scripture that prohibits them in some way. Initially its not really their fault, they are simply doing what they know, but once they see and know the scripture they have no excuse, and their only options are to accept and change, or continue in willful disobedience. Woe to them who continue in disobedience, for the “oppression” the suffer on this earth by adhering to the word of God will pale in comparison to the loss they will suffer when their works are stacked on the heap for testing before the Bema seat and, rather than go through the fire and come out as gold, all is burned to ash. Or, even worse, they face eternal death in Hell. Neither one of those prospects is appealing.

  3. If you decide to do this, I recommend that you re-read Ame’s post (first one above) just before you leave. We are called to present the Word of God. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to use that word to convict and call to repentance. That is not our work.

    My 2 cents is to suggest you make your point by asking questions, rather than making accusations. Keeping someone’s receptivity is the first “must” in winning any debate. I would recommend an approach something like the following:

    1. Remind pastor (by reading it if necessary) of what Gensis 2:18 says. Then ASK HIM to explain to you – within the context of that verse – what he meant by what he said – since you seem to have missed it.

    2. Give him the opportunity to explain. Do not challenge him. Let him explain. Then go away and think about what he has said. When you have isolated the next “wrong” thing he said, repeat Step 1 and then this Step 2.

    3. Your job is not to change his mind. That is the role of the Holy Spirit. Your job is to present the word to him. DO THAT. Repeatedly if necessary, being ever humble, and just looking for him to clarify his thoughts to you within the context of Genesis 2:18. Every time you go back with another question, humbly, you get a chance to present Genesis 2:18 to him and ask, humbly, for him to further clarify his thoughts within the context of Genesis 2:18.

    This is what the word says: God made her to be a help for him. Nowhere does the Bible say that God made him to be a help for her. That implies a heirarcy. But only the Holy Spirit can make this point to your Pastor. Your job is to keep putting Genesis 2:18 into his thoughts, so the Holy Spirit can do it’s job.

    Or else, be like the New Testament disciples and do what they did when they came to a town that would not receive them. If the issue is that big to you. Perhaps by staying, and continuing to humbly ask questions of th pastor and congregants, you can be the leaven in the bread and end up raising the whole loaf.

    If you’ve not yet seen my second comment, maybe it too will help:

    Again, as reminder – be who God created you to be – the patient deliverer of the word. Don’t try to be the Holy Spirit.

    1. Yes, I understand. I have compiled a document of points and scriptures, and I am very aware (probably because of my ex-sales experience) that I do not want to sound accusatory or as though I were attacking. I also understand that I cannot try to pound home a point, merely present the scripture and a few other small facts and leave it to him to seek knowledge and wisdom through prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

      Of course, he may just tell me so shove it.

      I’m not simply dealing with the issue of headship within a marriage, however, there is also the issue of allowing women to take positions in the church they are prohibited from taking.

      Believe me when I say I truly wish I had some of you fellow soldiers at my side during the whole shindig, but I must trust that God is with me if I am in His will, and that is all I need.

      I read your comment and I see what you are getting at. A husband is the head of his wife, yet they do share certain responsibilities within the “home”. In fact, to me Proverbs 31 shows a woman who very much seems to be “head of her household” in that she appears to be in control of the daily activities dealing with the servants, the children, the food – yet her husband is her head. She follows him and the rest of the train follows her, so to speak.

  4. @Snapper: “… there is also the issue of allowing women to take positions in the church they are prohibited from taking.”

    Helping someone can involve instructing someone how to do something that they don’t know how to do. So the help CAN give instructions to the helped. And if the helped is to be helped, he would do well to receive that instruction. But, in the larger sense, the dynamic between the helped and the help is that the helped gives instructions and the help receives them. You really need to see that all of Paul’s comments on this issue are building on Genesis 2:18 – they are not placing a new requirement on husbands and wives that had not existed before. Within the Church, except for special circumstances, generally the helped are to give the instruction and the help is to receive the instruction. Not the reverse. This is what creates the male-led heirarchy in the Church. And it is based firmly on Genesis 2:18. So both of the issues you raise in this thread can be dealt with according to what Gensis 2:18 says.

    I just made the connection that you are the one I was responding to at the linked thread below. I just now saw your response to me. I encourage you to re-read what I wrote to you there initially, and my response to your response to me. It is important stuff to think through as you get your head around what stance you wish to take firmly in your current situation. Plus my comment about salt and light made at the link in my post above.


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