In hot pursuit (not).

So during the conversation I had the other night with my aunt she kept brining up a point that, to me, is one of the biggest and most misleading statements in the modern church. She kept telling me that husbands need to pursue their wives the same way Christ pursues His church with an unending and unconditional love. If husbands would just do this then they would find that wives are more willing to be respectful and obedient, instead of husbands trying to utilize their authority, which is offensive because women are adults and people with feelings and wants, etc., etc.

(As I think about it I cannot help but notice her constant pull towards statements like “women are adults, not children”, “women are people too”, “women have feelings and needs and pursuits”. This stems from her human sexuality and psychology training. Combined with growing up in a feminist society, it has made it very difficult for her to read the words of the bible and take them at face value.)

Over at BlendingAme poster Joel posts and excellent reply to her post Mystery in the Presence of God. I will post his preceding reply as well so as to give context:

I fully agree, the idea that God is completely beyond knowing is rubbish…if we couldn’t know him at all, why would he reveal himself through the Word, who is Jesus? It would be useless if that were the case.

He desires to be pursued! The mystery is part of the chase eg Is 45:15

The bible is full of examples where God calls for us to seek Him. What it does not have in it are instances of God pursuing us relentlessly. In fact, Romans 1:28 says:

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

This tells me that God, though He loves us, will at some point allow us to walk away from Him and suffer the consequences of our actions. He will not come running after us like some lovesick boyfriend, hoping that if He does enough nice things for us we will turn back to Him. He is complete on His own. We are complementary to Him, but He does not need us – He is His own package.

This concept ties directly into the husband/wife relationship, of which Christ’s relationship with the church is an example in the bible. Modern Christians are very determined to teach husbands that Christ will relentlessly pursue us, and therefore they should relentlessly pursue their wives, but this is wrong because their concept of Christ’s love is wrong! Unfortunately it puts husbands in the position of having to continually pursue or “prove their love” to their wives, while wives are taught that their husbands should be continually pursing them and “proving their love” by providing gifts, dates, compliments, etc.! In the end one of two things will happen, either the husband will get burned out from his constant efforts or the wife will become frustrated because she doesn’t feel her husband is meeting her expectations of being constantly wooed.

Personally I think wives should be content with how and when their husbands show affection and “pursue” them, though I am not against wives asking for a night out on the town or even bringing up a gentle reminder that it’s “been a while” since they last went out. I know that I, personally, get so wrapped up in work and everything that needs to be done around the house that sometimes I forget about going out, I suspect a lot of other men are much the same. It’s not that we don’t love or forget about our wives, it’s just that men can get focused on a task and block out everything else in order to concentrate on it. What I do not think is wise is for wives to cry and complain about how they don’t feel loved because their husband does not make her the center of his world 24/7. To me this is either a sign of immaturity (mentally or spiritually) or maybe the top layer of some much deeper problems that need to be hashed out.

At the same time I think it’s good for husbands to spend time with their wives, as it is beneficial for themselves, their wives and the relationship. This, however, does not mean I think it NEEDS to be done or that it is a SIN if you don’t. Up until maybe a couple hundred years ago men, in their pursuit to provide for their families, didn’t always have the luxury to work near their homes. Some of them travelled the sea (watch the movie, In the Heart of the Sea. The main character left his wife and unborn daughter on a two year whale hunting expedition. TWO. YEARS.), some of them may have had to deliver goods from one place to another. Something that seems simple in our modern age, as we can easily travel 60 miles in an hour, but not so easy back during the days of horse and carriage. The wives of these eras would sometimes not see their husbands for weeks, months or years. And with the only communication being written, well, there was always the possibility that watching them leave to go to work was the last time you would ever hear from them. Modern day romance is a modern day convenience that is taken for granted. Both men and women are almost assured that they will leave for work in the morning with a kiss on the cheek and be back before dinner that evening. It has gone from a luxury to an expectation and the modern church has helped to push that.

Christians would be wise to avoid the gospel of romance and trade it in for the true gospel. Have realistic expectations and don’t be deceived! God loves you, but He will not devote all of His time to chasing you, and women shouldn’t expect this from their husbands either. Husbands, take note that God “remembers” us and, when we are doing good and receiving His affections He gives us good things. “Remember” your wife sometimes because you love her and care for her. It will bring her joy and that joy will be reflected in your relationship wit her, but remember that her joy will need to be replenished from time to time.

In closing I will repeat this suggestion to wives, as I have done in past posts. If you want your husband to pay you more attention then Get Mandy-cized! Embed yourself into your husbands brain by delivering a constant stream of good, healthy sex! Dress in clothes he likes and will notice on you! Dye your hair his favorite color! Send him a naughty picture or flash him your boobs at the dinner table (if no one else is around, of course)! Have a “Mandy” attitude! Doing this will put him back into boyfriend mode and he will find himself thinking about you in all the wrong ways for all the right reasons at the most inopportune times of the day! And he will love it! Sure it may sound like a lot of work for you, and it probably will be at first, but eventually it will just become the thing you do. And don’t forget that this man has pledged to spend his time, effort and body providing for you, 8 to 12 hours a day. And in case you need something a little more blunt:

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Author: SnapperTrx

Just a guy on the internet.

14 thoughts on “In hot pursuit (not).”

  1. I agree at some point he let’s us walk away. He won’t pursue forever, at some point, he says enough is enough. Okay that being said, let me give a caveat that is my simply my opinion – if you disagree, no problem! However, I don’t think we could do that statement justice without at least mentioning free will. The caveat is Romans 9, I don’t believe that the statement I made works for everyone. I think there are some that are hidden away and literally cannot make the choice to leave God. And God knows they won’t. They are predestined to be with him. And so my statement of he won’t pursue us forever I don’t think works for everyone, because I don’t think the mix of free will and predestination allows everyone that choice; not everyone can/will choose to walk away from him. But, that is a slightly tangential subject. Regardless, I agree, God is clear in that he will turn us over to our sins, in the hope that we will see our error and repent. And he definitely is complete on his own.

    1. Oh I absolutely agree. When I have talked to my kids about free will and pre-destination I have always explained it as “God has his chosen”. Moses, I believe, was chosen. Pre-destined to do the will of God, as was Mary, David, Saul, Daniel or Jonah. We can never fully understand how God works or how He chooses one while the other has a choice, but God knows the heart of every man. Even then it might not be a not a matter of Him pursuing that chosen one but rather Him knowing that the chosen one will choose to follow Him. Again, one of the mysteries of God that we may never fully understand, but we take on faith that He knows what He is doing, and it is good for us.

    1. No problem. It really put my thoughts into clear word. Let us hope that many would hear it and have their own thoughts and understandings clarified in the process!

  2. While I’m not going to enter the Biblical side of the debate, as a rule, it probably isn’t going to harm your relationship any to date your wife.

    1. The problem isn’t “dating ones wife”, the problem is the push by some in the church that not constantly pursuing your wife its a sin and if she suddenly decides she doesn’t feel loved enough and wants to divorce or has an affair then you, as a husband, have gotten what you deserve because you didn’t “pursue her relentlessly the way Christ pursues us”. (long sentence I know) Its a false teaching that can actually leads to an INCREASE in divorce in Christian marriages. It should be stamped out right away, but the message appeals to women who, in turn, spend a ton of money on materials, movies, books and music that push the message.

      As I stated above, dating your wife is a good thing and is beneficial to all. Making her the center of your world only works for so long. Once you have to concentrate on other things you will find her offended or hurt that you are not concentrating on her anymore and the trouble begins. As usual, this does not apply to ALL women, but a large majority. Its just their nature. They love affection, but like candy to a child, too much of a good thing can lead to bad results.

      1. Right; but as a.. what’s the term “unchurched person” I didn’t think it my place to offer an opinion on the biblical aspect.

        That being said (here’s where I’m going to regardless, apparently), the argument of relentless pursuit (which I don’t buy) perhaps has its foundation in the parable of the shepherd looking for the 1 lost sheep? Who knows.

        I think modern Christianity has become so convoluted and compromised and pansified that most churches don’t have the first clue what they’re talking about.

      2. Yes it has become quite convoluted.

        Your foundational argument has merit, but where some Christians get lost is that they don’t grasp the fact that the bible says God will let us walk away and “give us over” to our sin if that’s what we desire (as the scripture I quote above indicates). His desire is that none should perish, but He also gives us the choice to follow Him or not. If we choose not, He lets us walk away. He remains unmovable, meaning we can always turn back to Him if we choose, but He will not continue to chase us.

        And don’t worry about being an “unchurched person”, I’m more than happy to hear input from anyone who wants to give it. Questions cause us to examine what we believe and, if we desire to believe the truth, that means we have to examine and then weed out what is not truth, even if it means changing our understanding of something.

  3. Snapper,

    I appreciate this post. Where the “pursue your wife” teaching can go wrong is that it absolves us of any responsibility. We are just supposed to wait on our husbands to rekindle the spark,

    I would tell my married sisters to be risky! Arrange to take your husband to lunch, and show up at his work in a sexy dress and stilettos. His coworkers will see how lucky he is, and give him a new respect. THAT is honoring your husband.

    Another suggestion, offer to cook and host his friends over for a poker party, or cook for a game night. As you serve his friends in a cute outfit, you will be honoring him

    Another suggestion. Tell him to meet you at his favorite sports bar or restaurant after work, and invite some of your mutual friends there. Sometimes our men want to hang out with friends but just do not want to take the effort to do all of the planning.

    These initiatives that we can do make us much more of an alluring prey for our husbands who then want to cherish us and WANT to spend time with us

    1. Thanks for the input. I would definitely agree that I see a lot of women who believe exactly what you have described – that they have no responsibility to keep the relationship interesting and that it all falls on their husbands. They will whine and complain about the last time they got taken to dinner or on a trip out of town while their husbands are too busy to sit and wonder when the last time she wore a cute dress was, or when the last time was that she wore lingerie without him asking. As I said, and I say this from experience, a man can get very burned out trying to meet the demands of his wife along with all the other demands in his life. Women question a mans desire for sex and then ask “Why would a man want to have sex with his wife if he knows she’s not into it?”, yet never ask “Why would I want to go out on a date with my husband if I know he’s not into it?”.

      I’m telling you, the easiest way to get dates and stuff out of your husband is not to give him a schedule of demands but to instead work your way into his brain without him knowing it! When you were dating he did all kinds of nice things for you, remember? It wasn’t because you asked him to, it was because he couldn’t get you out of his head! You were in his thoughts constantly! Get back to that! How? Easy! Get “Mandy-cized” or take some time to think about what men want! Shower your husband with love, affection, adoration and sex and you will ALWAYS be on his mind! And for ladies who read this and think “That’s too much work!”, well, you’ve already lost. Maybe you should read this article first.

  4. Good article. While I agree that it would be wrong for a woman to desire to be relentlessly pursued all the time or be on her husband’s mind 24/7, I find it a little worrisome that you acknowledge that a man can get burned out from his constant efforts of pursuing his woman and showering her with affection, yet you encourage women to be the ones to constantly try to embed themselves in their husbands minds by getting ‘mandy-cized’ (I like this idea, btw) and continuously shower him constantly with love, affection and adoration, wearing lingerie often and all these other efforts. Do you think that women don’t also get burned out?

    I understand that husbands are busy and get preoccupied with their jobs or various projects, but its not like a wife doesn’t also have other responsibilities apart from her husband. Imagine a young wife that has several small children and is preoccupied with taking care of them all day, taking care of the home and performing other tasks. Just as women should not approach doing these things for their husbands as “That’s too much work!”, neither should husbands. Men generally like to pursue their women and win them over and women like to be pursued and desired. Don’t give up on doing this just because you married her. Imagine if your wife gave up on dressing sexy after she had finally gotten that ring on her finger. When your wife prods you about going out on more dates, try not to view it as her nagging you, she’s just trying to connect with you.

    A good suggestion would be that wives, embed yourselves in your husbands’ minds and likewise, men try to embed yourselves in your wives’ minds, so that even while she’s doing her different tasks during the day and taking care of your home and children, she’s thinking about you and brewing herself up in anticipation of sex with you later at night.

    1. Taylor,

      First off, thanks for the comment, I always appreciate seeing someone else’s point of view.

      Now, I understand what you are saying, but I think perhaps you are looking at the subject incorrectly. Allow me to elaborate:

      1. You will notice in the post that I mentioned that men SHOULD be being affectionate and spend time with their wives, as it is good not just for the men themselves but also for their wives and family. The main point of the post was that men are held to the notion that NOT doing this is somehow a sin! As if, were they not attending their weekly scheduled date night, they were to be condemned to the fires of hell! Now I do not know if you are a Christian or not, but if you are I think that, even without picking up the bible and searching, you can back me up when I say that this simply isn’t true.

      If a friend of mine was having issues with his wife and I found out he never, ever took her out or spent real, meaningful time with her I would recommend he do so. That simple act CAN make a huge difference, but I would never suggest that his not doing so was causing him to sin. A church that pushes this concept is a church that should be avoided by men altogether, as it will most certainly cause disruption and rebellion in a marriage.

      2. Your comment seems to revolve around the idea that men and women work the same way and want the same thing, but this simply isn’t the case. Men want respect while women desire affection (while both desire sex). Men cannot gain respect from their wives by constantly showering her with affection. I can tell you from personal experience that it simply doesn’t work. It’s like eating a bunch of candy – eventually you become numb to the sugar and it doesn’t taste sweet anymore. Sure a woman may stick around if she is being showered with gifts, dates, trips and the like, but as soon as the gifts stop or someone better comes along (whom she respects more) – off she goes. Men gain respect from women by providing. Providing protection, providing discipline, providing comfort, providing excitement AND providing affection.

      (For those in the know on red pill concepts it is known as having a good mix of both the alpha “bad boy” and the beta “comfort” attitudes. The beta provides comfort and affection while the alpha provides protection and excitement while it takes a good combination of both to provide discipline.)

      You will notice my Mandy post didn’t suggest that being ‘Mandy-cized’ is how women should always live their day-to-day lives. Though it is possible, it too could be tiring, as many women do have children and other things to attend to besides their husbands (though their husband should be their main focus), the post was intended to point out to women a means of acquiring affection when they wanted it of if they felt it was lacking. Modern society trains women to throw a fit when they feel they aren’t receiving enough affection from their husbands, or that “the fire is dead” and it’s time to move on. I suggest, instead, that women can jar their husbands from their tunnel vision through simple, free and fun means, that will work almost 100% of the time. A woman’s husband married her for a reason, and one of the big reasons would have been sex. Why women have trained other women to put sex with their husbands on a metered tap I have no idea. It’s free. It’s fun (for the most part, if not then look around. The internet is full of ideas and suggestions) and if delivered with frequency AND enthusiasm it puts a woman in a very unique position with her husband – back in the dark, musty, now cobweb covered spot marked ‘girlfriend’. You act like his girlfriend and watch him act like your boyfriend.

      3. Husbands should ALWAYS been embedded in their wives minds. For the most part everything a wife owns: the house she lives in, the car she drives, the appliances that make her life easier, the clothes she wears – almost everything has been provided by her husband. All these comforts were provided by a man who gets up every day and burns his body up in sacrifice for his wife (and children, but eventually the children will move on to be adults while the husband continues to work to provide for his wife). I am reminded of a poem or sonnet I read not to long ago by William Shakespeare, which I will post sometime soon, in which he laments that women become so shrewish in their attitude towards their husbands while their husbands work so hard to ensure that their wives can stay at home and enjoy the comforts of living while they (the men) must work:

      “Whilst thou li’st warm at home, secure and safe;
      And craves no other tribute at thy hands
      But love, fair looks, and true obedience-
      Too little payment for so great a debt.”

      Of course in modern “enlightened” society it is anathema for a woman to depend on a man, yet few are the women who can live the lifestyle alone that they could live were they married.

      Also, from a Christian standpoint who has been assigned the position of Head and who the position of Helpmate? Someone who is acting as an assistant should always be ready to assist. Again, this modern society causes any woman with such readiness to be seen as a doormat or a failure, yet when a woman stands before God what will she say when He asks how she did with His assignment? Indeed it is THE FIRST THING GOD COMMANDS FOR WOMAN TO DO!

      Genesis 2: 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

      If a woman’s assignment to her husband is to be his help, how will she answer when she has been no help at all, but instead has doled out to her husband only what SHE see’s fit to give? That’s not help at all. That is TRUE failure at being a woman – not by my standard, but by Gods standard.

      4. Lastly, if we look at the comparison of marriage to Christ and the church we see that the church, and we as Christians, are told on several occasions to SEEK GOD RELENTLESSLY – not the other way around. As I said in the post, God does pursue us, but He makes it clear both in the Old and New Testament that He is not a lovesick boy, willing to do whatever it takes to keep us, nor to follow us to the ends of the Earth to keep in our good graces. He pursues us, but then His word is: Follow me. We must continue to pursue Him or, if we choose not to, He allows us to walk away.

      So if man is compared to Christ while woman is compared to the Church, how do we suppose the concept of who pursues who plays out? If you are not a Christian then it probably doesn’t matter, but if you are then things line up quite well – the Church pursues God and is obedient to Him to remain in His affections. Though His love for us never stops, His affections can (will, and have been) withdrawn when we are disobedient. What does this say about the relationship between a husband and wife?

      Most Christians are too scared to say it out loud.

      I will finish this reply. I am very sorry that it has gone on for so long. I am afraid I have taken some new focusing supplements and they are working rather well (maybe too well). Thus, once I started typing I really felt the need to continue. How much easier it might be if I could just talk to people, but often when we talk we aren’t listening.

      Please feel free to post any other comments or questions. In my current state of mind I may not have explained everything that was in my head properly, or thoroughly.

      1. Snapper,

        Thanks for your detailed response. And I don’t mind long replies at all, it affirms to me that you didn’t just brush away my comment as unimportant and actually spent time considering it.

        Regarding your first point, in that scenario, I would actually disagree with you and say that your friend would be in sin. There’s a verse in the Bible about talking to your wife and ‘dwelling with her in knowledge’ and so if he didn’t spend real meaningful time with her, as the Bible requires him to do, he would be committing sin. Sure, he’s not required to take her out on dates, but he is required to spend quality time with her, getting to know her and listening to her needs and concerns.

        For the next point, I would agree with you that women tend to lose respect for someone that just always showers them with affection all the time, especially when they (the women) have done nothing to deserve it in return. And yes, if you gave her no affection at all, she may begin to resent you, so a healthy dose would be recommended.

        I think in our modern society, where in most families both parents work, the gravity of the man ‘providing’ has lost its effect. Even in those situations where the man brings in more money than the wife does, because the wife contributes significantly to the things that you listed here, such as the house she lives in, her car, appliances and her clothes..the man is no longer really the provider but more of a financial contributor. This certainly does not mean that any wife should disrespect her husband; I always admonish women that speak about their husbands with contempt or disrespect, especially in public. Likewise, to men that speak about or to their wives in such manner. Nevertheless, I barely know any women that have their husbands give them allowances to buy their clothes, food or buy their cars for them, because they all work and can afford these things for themselves. This is not to say that they do not appreciate their husband’s contributions towards the house or towards their savings, it’s just that the man isn’t so much of the sole provider anymore. And the men are definitely not complaining. They enjoy the double income, so that the family can have more money to put towards other things like college savings, holidays and retirement. A lot of these men would probably complain and not be happy if their wives just stopped working to be a full stay-at-home mother, thereby not really contributing to the family income.

        I also want to point out that while the ‘Mandy- cized’ recommendation is a great one, it is not full proof nor will it work almost 100% of the time, as you hypothesize. A wife should certainly give her husband regular sex, but there are a lot of men that take a woman with a ‘Mandy’ attitude for granted. Just like a woman can start to lose respect for a man that is ‘beta’, there are men that walk all over the ‘mandy’ type women. They basically think that since they would still get regular sex and a good demeanor from their wives, no matter how much they neglect or behave terribly (not necessarily physical violence), then they are happy to do as they please. This is not ideal, but it is the reality of some women around us.

        I’m actually not a Christian. I used to be. But when I started to study the Bible more closely, I realized that there are a lot of things that don’t sit right with me and I can’t accept. I can’t, in good conscience, follow a God that essentially sees women as property and regards their needs as secondary within a marriage. Also, allows slavery and polygamy. Or a God, and correct me if I’m wrong, that says it’s okay to force a single woman to marry her rapist in the OT, as a way to, I guess punish the man since he’s being made to give her marital rights forever. I’m glad this isn’t legal today, but how could anyone ask a woman to live with and submit to a man that (possibly, violently) raped her. A God who, even though men and women are both sinful humans, indirectly shames women for the very emotional nature that he supposedly blessed them with, and upholds the duty nature that he blessed men with. And so all women are left to struggle everyday with their God-given feelings based nature, in order to be more duty driven like men are. I don’t mean to insult your faith, in fact I’m grateful for the Christian environment that I was raised in. It shaped me into the woman that I am today. But as a child and young adult, I hadn’t studied the Bible well and truthfully didn’t really know what being a Christian was really about. And now that I have and I do, it disturbs me and I can no longer be a part of it.

        However, I still like reading and following up on some Christian blogs such as yours because some of them actually give good advice about life, marriage and how to be a better person. So while I respect certain parts of the religion, it doesn’t make up for the other parts.

        Again, thanks for your response. I just wanted to give my suggestion based on my experiences and what has worked well within my marriage. Have a good day!

  5. Hrm, though I will say that is unfortunate about your experience with Christianity and it pains me to hear you no longer follow Christ, I will also say that I can respect your position. I would rather deal straight out with someone who says they don’t like Gods word rather than someone who says they are a Christian but don’t act like it. I don’t see how you view women as being treated like property, but you see what you see.

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